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911 turbo vs ZR1, it's backwards
gofobroke
post Mar 1 2010, 03:40 PM
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here we go, the 2010 911 turbo is way faster then a ZR1 in a straight line yet comes in second in the road course lap @ VIR. Seems reversed. The rest is the same. Vette interior cheap looking for 120k, vette dives and rolls more etc, porsche tighter, vette raw, Porshe sophisticated....they pay these guys to say this over and over again..good thing my subscription is an office write off.
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russo
post Mar 1 2010, 04:33 PM
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I agree, ultimately the prowess of any car can only be judged by the skill of the driver. Magazines are in the business of selling subscriptions and thus will always present their information in a manner to catch the most attention, even if they lose some of their objectivity. Both cars are excellent. Some guys love blonds, some love red heads, to each his own. The great thing is that we have a myriad of choices available.
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Z06MEISTER
post Mar 1 2010, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (gofobroke @ Mar 1 2010, 03:40 PM) *
here we go, the 2010 911 turbo is way faster then a ZR1 in a straight line yet comes in second in the road course lap @ VIR. Seems reversed. The rest is the same. Vette interior cheap looking for 120k, vette dives and rolls more etc, porsche tighter, vette raw, Porshe sophisticated....they pay these guys to say this over and over again..good thing my subscription is an office write off.


Makes sense now as I always knew the Porsche belongs at the 1/4 mile dragstrip as it can only go fast in a straight line. To get beat by a goog ol American iron chevy. Guess as time goes by Porsches are getting more defecative and chevees are developing heritage. Whoulda thunk it....


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SpyderGuy
post Mar 2 2010, 08:04 AM
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handdoc
post Mar 2 2010, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE
Makes sense now as I always knew the Porsche belongs at the 1/4 mile dragstrip as it can only go fast in a straight line. To get beat by a goog ol American iron chevy. Guess as time goes by Porsches are getting more defecative and chevees are developing heritage. Whoulda thunk it....


Yeah, and let's see where that vette is in 20 years. More than likely in a junkyard, being parted for spare parts. The Porsche will still be running strong, and probably at a track or DE event. Take your pick.


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NoPasaNada
post Mar 2 2010, 09:42 AM
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I haven't seen any 40+ year old vettes at any of the events, maybe one of these days there might be.


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bassam
post Mar 2 2010, 09:47 AM
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Camel is turning 21 years old in October, still too young compared to NPN's kid smile.gif


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SpyderGuy
post Mar 2 2010, 10:01 AM
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Gotta get those Chev motors from somewhere. sarcastic_hand.gif


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gofobroke
post Mar 2 2010, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE (handdoc @ Mar 2 2010, 08:52 AM) *
Yeah, and let's see where that vette is in 20 years. More than likely in a junkyard, being parted for spare parts. The Porsche will still be running strong, and probably at a track or DE event. Take your pick.



Luke I ferdinand am your father...not ferry...look behind your rear axles...no..no.. your not my father..not the peoples car commisioned by darth vader..no it can't be...yes luke..the truth will set you free...but no I can't fit a vette motor back there it's all wrong....nooooo
A car for the many? yes luke...Not the few? yes luke..but ferry was a rich playboy..But ferdinand made you the riches..You were not designed for this.....Beware the cayman luke I command you to move that engine forward or be damned to an eternity of snap oversteer.
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Stryph
post Mar 2 2010, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE (gofobroke @ Mar 2 2010, 10:17 AM) *
Luke I ferdinand am your father...not ferry...look behind your rear axles...no..no.. your not my father..not the peoples car commisioned by darth vader..no it can't be...yes luke..the truth will set you free...but no I can't fit a vette motor back there it's all wrong....nooooo


Love the StarWars refrence *hehehe*snort*hehehe* (aww crap is my geek showing?)




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gofobroke
post Mar 2 2010, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (Stryph @ Mar 2 2010, 11:25 AM) *
Love the StarWars refrence *hehehe*snort*hehehe* (aww crap is my geek showing?)



all kidding aside the 911 is a wonderful car and porsche has done a great job all these years keeping it up front despite being hampered by tradition and loyalty to the rear engine philosophy. The difference between the two cars could never be realized by 99% of the driving public. But that being said there is an image problem when you put 500hp into a porsche really the max useable limits of adhesion and a vette beats you around a road course. Is the 911 rear engine design finally going to succumb?
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handdoc
post Mar 2 2010, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE
all kidding aside the 911 is a wonderful car and porsche has done a great job all these years keeping it up front despite being hampered by tradition and loyalty to the rear engine philosophy. The difference between the two cars could never be realized by 99% of the driving public. But that being said there is an image problem when you put 500hp into a porsche really the max useable limits of adhesion and a vette beats you around a road course. Is the 911 rear engine design finally going to succumb?


Not anytime soon. Let's try and keep this in perspective. The 911 has been in continuous production since 1963. If you were to take a 1963 model and park it next to a 2010 model, you could clearly see the resemblance (something Porsche calls it's "DNA"). Try doing that with a Vette.

You want to talk horsepower? The 1996 Porsche 911 GT1 made 700bhp with a 3.2 L twin-turbo flat six engine. You want to go bigger? The 917's of the fabled Can Am era produced up to 1,580 bhp in qualifying tune from a 5L flat 12 engine. The baddest Corvette? The ZR1 at 638 hp from a 6.2L Supercharged LS9 powerplant. Almost twice the displacement of the GT1. See the point?

The 911 has (and continues to be) one of the most successful competition cars ever. Period.
Countless victories at the Nurburgring, Targa Florio, Mille Miglia, Carrera Panamericana, Dakar, Monaco, Daytona, Sebring, Le Mans, etc solidify it's racing heritage.

In the 1999 international poll for the award of Car of the Century, the 911 came fifth (out of 700 eligible cars). It is the only one in the top five that has remained continuously in production. The vette? Sure, it made the 26 car semifinalist field. That's it.

Respect the legend.


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gofobroke
post Mar 2 2010, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (handdoc @ Mar 2 2010, 02:26 PM) *
Not anytime soon. Let's try and keep this in perspective. The 911 has been in continuous production since 1963. If you were to take a 1963 model and park it next to a 2010 model, you could clearly see the resemblance (something Porsche calls it's "DNA"). Try doing that with a Vette.

You want to talk horsepower? The 1996 Porsche 911 GT1 made 700bhp with a 3.2 L twin-turbo flat six engine. You want to go bigger? The 917's of the fabled Can Am era produced up to 1,580 bhp in qualifying tune from a 5L flat 12 engine. The baddest Corvette? The ZR1 at 638 hp from a 6.2L Supercharged LS9 powerplant. Almost twice the displacement of the GT1. See the point?

The 911 has (and continues to be) one of the most successful competition cars ever. Period.
Countless victories at the Nurburgring, Targa Florio, Mille Miglia, Carrera Panamericana, Dakar, Monaco, Daytona, Sebring, Le Mans, etc solidify it's racing heritage.

In the 1999 international poll for the award of Car of the Century, the 911 came fifth (out of 700 eligible cars). It is the only one in the top five that has remained continuously in production. The vette? Sure, it made the 26 car semifinalist field. That's it.

Respect the legend.


Actually there is a resemblance of all vettes since 1962. I'm talking production your talking race cars. I don't see anybody beating the C5R or C6R for the last few years RUNNING. Yes porsche 911 has a much broader racing pedigree but Corvettes have been racing longer. The DNA you refer to comes from a beetle. The fore runner was the 956 remember Humilify. Win on sunday sell on monday baby. Excluding the 956 and others small displacement porsches pre 911. BTW was the car of the century not the beetle. I bet it was.
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handdoc
post Mar 2 2010, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE
Actually there is a resemblance of all vettes since 1962.

Really?:

C1 Vette:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1954_Corvette.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1954_Corvette.jpg</a>

C6 ZR1:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chevrole...ette_ZR1_NY.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chevrole...ette_ZR1_NY.jpg</a>

Yep, quite the twins!

QUOTE
I'm talking production your talking race cars


Engine design is engine design. To quote you:
"Win on sunday sell on monday"

QUOTE
I don't see anybody beating the C5R or C6R for the last few years RUNNING


Then check this out:
<a href="http://www.americanlemans.com/results/2009/2009_GT2.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.americanlemans.com/results/2009/2009_GT2.pdf</a>

See where it says: "automobile manufacturer"? Fourth place, baby. Who's on first? I'll be darned, a Porsche. And a 911 at that!

QUOTE
Yes porsche 911 has a much broader racing pedigree but Corvettes have been racing longer.


Only because they were introduced 10 years earlier (1953). However in those extra 10 years they managed to win less races than Porsche. Go figure.

QUOTE
The DNA you refer to comes from a beetle.


And proudly so. Number four on that Car of the Century list. Only 21,529,464 were produced over an unprecedented 58-year production run since 1945, the year VW recognizes as the first year of non-Nazi funded production.
Quite a forefather if you ask me.

QUOTE
The fore runner was the 956 remember Humilify. Win on sunday sell on monday baby. Excluding the 956 and others small displacement porsches pre 911.


You must be referring to the venerable 356. Get your facts straight, bro. They are only numbers to you.
They are icons to us.

Like I said:
Respect the legend.


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"World's worst 911 GT2 driver"-Top Gear Magazine
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gofobroke
post Mar 2 2010, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE (handdoc @ Mar 2 2010, 03:03 PM) *
Really?:

C1 Vette:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1954_Corvette.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1954_Corvette.jpg</a>

C6 ZR1:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chevrole...ette_ZR1_NY.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chevrole...ette_ZR1_NY.jpg</a>

Yep, quite the twins!



Then check this out:
<a href="http://www.americanlemans.com/results/2009/2009_GT2.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.americanlemans.com/results/2009/2009_GT2.pdf</a>

See where it says: "automobile manufacturer"? Fourth place, baby. Who's on first? I'll be darned, a Porsche. And a 911 at that!



Only because they were introduced 10 years earlier (1953). However in those extra 10 years they managed to win less races than Porsche. Go figure.



And proudly so. Number four on that Car of the Century list. Only 21,529,464 were produced over an unprecedented 58-year production run since 1945, the year VW recognizes as the first year of non-Nazi funded production.
Quite a forefather if you ask me.



You must be referring to the venerable 356. Get your facts straight, bro. They are only numbers to you.
They are icons to us.



ok 356. got it. The c1 there is 1954 or so. I refered to 1962 on. 48 years is pretty good. Ok they broke the streak as you point out. But again the fact of the matter is a cayman kept up with a 911 at less cost, and a bmw m3 outran both porsches in your cd comparo. And now a Zr1 comes out on top in road course...see that point.
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handdoc
post Mar 2 2010, 04:53 PM
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QUOTE
The c1 there is 1954 or so. I refered to 1962 on.


Sort of like this one, right? Clearly I see the resemblance now!:

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Cor...e_Sting_Ray.jpg</a>


QUOTE
Ok they broke the streak as you point out.


Streak, what streak? Corvette was in GT1 prior to 2007, which they dominated against such "stiff" competition as Dodge and Aston Martin (half of the time that they weren't broken down). Soon as they moved up to GT2, they took their rightful place, behind the Porsches. Seventh out of seven manufacturers. Quite the streak.

<a href="http://americanlemans.com/results/2008/2008_GT2Page2.pdf" target="_blank">http://americanlemans.com/results/2008/2008_GT2Page2.pdf</a>


QUOTE
But again the fact of the matter is a cayman kept up with a 911 at less cost, and a bmw m3 outran both porsches in your cd comparo. And now a Zr1 comes out on top in road course...see that point.


And again, the "cost" issue. Don't get me wrong, those are all great cars (Cayman, M3, ZR1), and have great "bang for the buck" appeal. They are not icons that have been in constant production for over 47 years, with a veritable racing heritage on all corners of the world, under all conditions. Only the 911 can fit that bill.

A regular "fast and the furious" ricer rocket hopped up on nitro would beat all the cars on that list, and then some. Does it mean it's a better car?
Reflect on that point there for a while.


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"World's worst 911 GT2 driver"-Top Gear Magazine
(http://www.topgear.co.za/videos/video-worl...911-gt2-driver/)

"Arm on the sill? One-handed corrections? At a F1 track? Really…"

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gofobroke
post Mar 2 2010, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (handdoc @ Mar 2 2010, 04:53 PM) *
Sort of like this one, right? Clearly I see the resemblance now!:

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Cor...e_Sting_Ray.jpg</a>




Streak, what streak? Corvette was in GT1 prior to 2007, which they dominated against such "stiff" competition as Dodge and Aston Martin (half of the time that they weren't broken down). Soon as they moved up to GT2, they took their rightful place, behind the Porsches. Seventh out of seven manufacturers. Quite the streak.

<a href="http://americanlemans.com/results/2008/2008_GT2Page2.pdf" target="_blank">http://americanlemans.com/results/2008/2008_GT2Page2.pdf</a>




And again, the "cost" issue. Don't get me wrong, those are all great cars (Cayman, M3, ZR1), and have great "bang for the buck" appeal. They are not icons that have been in constant production for over 47 years, with a veritable racing heritage on all corners of the world, under all conditions. Only the 911 can fit that bill.

A regular "fast and the furious" ricer rocket hopped up on nitro would beat all the cars on that list, and then some. Does it mean it's a better car?
Reflect on that point there for a while.


Rice rocket would break, no you are correct the 911 is one hell of a car from rally to lemans. The competition is stiff. I believe the cayman is midengined and hangs extremely well with the 911 with way less power ie handles great. SO... the point after all this bantering is WILL PORSCHE CONTINUE TO PUT THE ENGINE BEHIND THE REAR AXLES..I got a vette so i'm feeling my oats..The 911 is no doubt an icon. Just having fun here..
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handdoc
post Mar 2 2010, 05:35 PM
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Me too, brother, me too! I have great respect for your driving ability and your passion behind the wheel. Hope to see you soon.


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whosyourdaddy
post Mar 2 2010, 05:47 PM
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corvettes are great cars and GT2 gets eaten . I had a1963 corvette and was a very good car and one day I may end up driving one with no nitro please. ah forgot that vette had no brakes after 70 mph and i mean nada just a litle problem for a teenage to drive fast . I believe that the Europeans and the Japanese made the Americans think about quality products .
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russo
post Mar 2 2010, 05:58 PM
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I have to respect the current day Corvette's, since they started participating in the AMLS series they have improved the breed. It will be an interesting season in the AMLS, with Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW and Jaguar fighting for top honors. Many of the sport commentators are speculating that the GT2 class is going to be the top attraction, not the Prototypes.
In response to GOFO, the speculation that continues to come up, when will Porsche go to the mid engine set up? It hasn't happened in the past 40 years, and Porsche is up front and vocal on their commitment to the set up status quo. The car continues to improve with every new iteration. You would have to be crazy to change such a successful. formula.
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