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Alignment Day
Z06MEISTER
post Jan 28 2010, 07:39 PM
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What about an alignment day at D&D on a Saturday??


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russo
post Jan 29 2010, 12:52 AM
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Do we get to rev the engines up to redline and listen to their respective symphonic signatures?
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SpyderGuy
post Jan 29 2010, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (Z06MEISTER @ Jan 28 2010, 07:39 PM) *
What about an alignment day at D&D on a Saturday??





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SpyderGuy
post Jan 29 2010, 02:42 PM
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Okay how about a pill for alignment:




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SpyderGuy
post Jan 29 2010, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (russo @ Jan 29 2010, 12:52 AM) *
Do we get to rev the engines up to redline and listen to their respective symphonic signatures?


We'll have to make you a CD with GT3 sounds for your IPOD.


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Randyb_981
post Jan 29 2010, 04:17 PM
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Firestone is great if you're setting up your minivan for a washboarded road.

Actual story - I was thinking that the Firestone near my home was at least competent enough to mount and balance tires....wrong. After two or three tries, they continued to produce unsatisfactory results. Finally, I punted to another shop and was satisfied.

Later, I was told that they "discovered" that their balancing machine was out of spec. They informed me of the machine issue when I was in for a different service...when I asked if others had complained about wobbly tires, they said yes, but not more than usual.

More than usual?...now they've lost all my business.


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SpyderGuy
post Jan 29 2010, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (RandyB_987 @ Jan 29 2010, 04:17 PM) *
Firestone is great if you're setting up your minivan for a washboarded road.

Actual story - I was thinking that the Firestone near my home was at least competent enough to mount and balance tires....wrong. After two or three tries, they continued to produce unsatisfactory results. Finally, I punted to another shop and was satisfied.

Later, I was told that they "discovered" that their balancing machine was out of spec. They informed me of the machine issue when I was in for a different service...when I asked if others had complained about wobbly tires, they said yes, but not more than usual.

More than usual?...now they've lost all my business.


I wouldn't go there either, but some persons want cheap; so the coupon.


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Z06MEISTER
post Jan 29 2010, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (russo @ Jan 29 2010, 12:52 AM) *
Do we get to rev the engines up to redline and listen to their respective symphonic signatures?


Sure, if you want to bother the heck out of the alignment guy.


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grocery getter
post Jan 30 2010, 09:17 AM
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Firestone will set to spec.
No race set-ups.
Again is the machine calibrated?


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Bill Browning
post Jan 30 2010, 02:52 PM
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Hi Randy, For tire balancing I have had good luck with Discount tire near Weber. When I had the CRX I bought the life time deal with Brake Check on SPID and the manager was an old round track driver and he would set whatever alignment I wanted. He was good to talk to about alignment and how it makes the car handle. But when he was not on duty it was bad. Of course I did not know how to align the CRX like the previous owner. The Miata had alignment information from the Autocross champs and the SM champs. Look for some type of racer at whatever alignment place you choose and I think you will have better luck. Of course find the recommendation of people who race cars like yours. Then you will have the alignment spec's to give to the tech. Never just say align it to factory specs. On my old Miata's the tolerance is the full range of adjustment available. on_the_quiet.gif Now Sears and others have digital levels good to 0.1 deg. Mine was $40.00. This along with a home made jig to get the level square with the wheel can give you the camber. Some mono fishing line strung around all 4 tires can give you toe in or out. Allow for different front and rear track and tire size. That just leaves caster. That requires a plate under the front tires to show them turned in and out 20 degrees. A lazy Susan turn table 6 to 8" in dia. made of steel and steel ball bearings should work. Bolt them to a piece of 3/8" plywood long enough for the tire to roll on so it won't slide. Make a mark on the top platter and using a protractor make three marks on the bottom. The side to the left or right will med a 0 deg. mark and 2 20deg. marks for when the tires are turned left 20 deg. and right 20 deg. Make these marks so you can see them from the side of the car. A spacer exactly the same height needs to be under the rear tires when making the measurement. Just a stack of plywood or whatever is handy. The platters also need a lock in the form of a hole you can put a bolt or steel pin in when you roll the car on the alignment tool. This pin needs to be a good fit so the platters will be 0 deg. with the wheels as the car rolls on the tool. You also have to remove this pin so it should clear the tire. Read the level and the difference is the caster. These levels have a setting to allow for a relative zero. If your driveway is off a little (if your driveway is off more than 1 or maybe 2 degrees find a flatter place) or when setting the caster set the zero and turn the tire 40 degrees and read the caster directly. The jig I made is shaped like a T so that each end sets on bead of the wheel. in the middle it has a square bar parallel to the axle and I put the level on that. The jig must be square. I put a cut off wheel on my table saw, carefully aligned, to cut the 1" square tubing from Home Depot. Make the cut and turn the tubing over and just touch the cut end to the cut off wheel and see if it makes a mark across the entire end. If it does you have a square cut. I have a torch so I spot the tube at the 4 corners and test is with the level. Put the jig on the wheel and take a reading. Turn the jig over and take another reading. If they are the same you have a camber setting jig. Finish welding and test again. I hold this jig on with a bungee. I did not do this to save money but with a trailer car it's a pain to get it parked at the store. Plus I was more likely to check and make adjustments when needed. When setting the caster the vehicle must be level. The rear tire blocks can be made to adjust for the slope of your driveway. For camber the car needs to be level side to side. Unless your driveway has more than 2 or 3 deg. of slope, then use blocks to make the car level on all 4 tires. I have fun doing this kind of stuff. If you know a better way please share it with us. friends.gif


--------------------
1990 Mazda Miata project. Partner with Patrick Ransom on a Formula Indy car. My old sometimes reliable 1999 Isuzu Hombre PU.
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stangmeister9
post Jan 30 2010, 10:37 PM
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in brownsville i use Pueblo. ask for Mingo or Luis they understand what we are doing and what settings (as impractical as they are). Raul is the TECh to ask for. they have a jar of ASPRIN just for moments when they deal with me. constantly fighting what the machine that tells them what is correct and what i want!

they have a brand new state of the art machine that really dials everything in!


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dürtykorp.:R32
post Jan 31 2010, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (stangmeister9 @ Jan 30 2010, 10:37 PM) *
in brownsville i use Pueblo. ask for Mingo or Luis they understand what we are doing and what settings (as impractical as they are). Raul is the TECh to ask for. they have a jar of ASPRIN just for moments when they deal with me. constantly fighting what the machine that tells them what is correct and what i want!

they have a brand new state of the art machine that really dials everything in!


I would have to agree with Danny on this. I have taken my car with them in the past and they have done excellent work.


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SpyderGuy
post Feb 1 2010, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE (Z06MEISTER @ Jan 29 2010, 07:09 PM) *
Sure, if you want to bother the heck out of the alignment guy.


Now that's funny! sarcastic_hand.gif


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SpyderGuy
post Feb 1 2010, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Bill Browning @ Jan 30 2010, 02:52 PM) *
Hi Randy, For tire balancing I have had good luck with Discount tire near Weber. When I had the CRX I bought the life time deal with Brake Check on SPID and the manager was an old round track driver and he would set whatever alignment I wanted. He was good to talk to about alignment and how it makes the car handle. But when he was not on duty it was bad. Of course I did not know how to align the CRX like the previous owner. The Miata had alignment information from the Autocross champs and the SM champs. Look for some type of racer at whatever alignment place you choose and I think you will have better luck. Of course find the recommendation of people who race cars like yours. Then you will have the alignment spec's to give to the tech. Never just say align it to factory specs. On my old Miata's the tolerance is the full range of adjustment available. on_the_quiet.gif Now Sears and others have digital levels good to 0.1 deg. Mine was $40.00. This along with a home made jig to get the level square with the wheel can give you the camber. Some mono fishing line strung around all 4 tires can give you toe in or out. Allow for different front and rear track and tire size. That just leaves caster. That requires a plate under the front tires to show them turned in and out 20 degrees. A lazy Susan turn table 6 to 8" in dia. made of steel and steel ball bearings should work. Bolt them to a piece of 3/8" plywood long enough for the tire to roll on so it won't slide. Make a mark on the top platter and using a protractor make three marks on the bottom. The side to the left or right will med a 0 deg. mark and 2 20deg. marks for when the tires are turned left 20 deg. and right 20 deg. Make these marks so you can see them from the side of the car. A spacer exactly the same height needs to be under the rear tires when making the measurement. Just a stack of plywood or whatever is handy. The platters also need a lock in the form of a hole you can put a bolt or steel pin in when you roll the car on the alignment tool. This pin needs to be a good fit so the platters will be 0 deg. with the wheels as the car rolls on the tool. You also have to remove this pin so it should clear the tire. Read the level and the difference is the caster. These levels have a setting to allow for a relative zero. If your driveway is off a little (if your driveway is off more than 1 or maybe 2 degrees find a flatter place) or when setting the caster set the zero and turn the tire 40 degrees and read the caster directly. The jig I made is shaped like a T so that each end sets on bead of the wheel. in the middle it has a square bar parallel to the axle and I put the level on that. The jig must be square. I put a cut off wheel on my table saw, carefully aligned, to cut the 1" square tubing from Home Depot. Make the cut and turn the tubing over and just touch the cut end to the cut off wheel and see if it makes a mark across the entire end. If it does you have a square cut. I have a torch so I spot the tube at the 4 corners and test is with the level. Put the jig on the wheel and take a reading. Turn the jig over and take another reading. If they are the same you have a camber setting jig. Finish welding and test again. I hold this jig on with a bungee. I did not do this to save money but with a trailer car it's a pain to get it parked at the store. Plus I was more likely to check and make adjustments when needed. When setting the caster the vehicle must be level. The rear tire blocks can be made to adjust for the slope of your driveway. For camber the car needs to be level side to side. Unless your driveway has more than 2 or 3 deg. of slope, then use blocks to make the car level on all 4 tires. I have fun doing this kind of stuff. If you know a better way please share it with us. friends.gif

Can we do it with less words and more pictures? to_become_senile.gif


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You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old 'cuz you stop playing!

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X35 Performance
post Feb 2 2010, 07:49 PM
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1093484




There ya go.  You will still have to do some reading though  russian_ru.gif




QUOTE (SpyderGuy @ Feb 1 2010, 08:59 AM) *
Can we do it with less words and more pictures? to_become_senile.gif
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NoPasaNada
post Feb 3 2010, 08:18 AM
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great link, the only thing I would not do is measure to the center cap on the wheel, better to remove it, remove the wheel bearing dust cap and measure directly to the end of the spindle, there could be some differences in the thickness of the wheel cap, or maybe one could be seated in a little farther than another. Strings are the best way to set alignment and also the most time consuming.


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SpyderGuy
post Feb 3 2010, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE (NoPasaNada @ Feb 3 2010, 08:18 AM) *
great link, the only thing I would not do is measure to the center cap on the wheel, better to remove it, remove the wheel bearing dust cap and measure directly to the end of the spindle, there could be some differences in the thickness of the wheel cap, or maybe one could be seated in a little farther than another. Strings are the best way to set alignment and also the most time consuming.


That's why my car runs so good they string aligned it. Or was it rubber bands?

The long version:
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory[/url]

The short version:
Pictures are worth thousand of words.



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You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old 'cuz you stop playing!

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Z06MEISTER
post Feb 13 2010, 10:18 AM
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Le Z06 got the camber, caster, and toe in set this AM at D&D. Hopefully initial turn in should now be improved....


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You are one with your machine when driving at the "Limit"....
Track Toy: 2013 Camaro ZL1
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whosyourdaddy
post Feb 13 2010, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (Z06MEISTER @ Feb 13 2010, 10:18 AM) *
Le Z06 got the camber, caster, and toe in set this AM at D&D. Hopefully initial turn in should now be improved....

good for u hope ur time comes down . on_the_quiet2.gif
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Bill Browning
post Feb 17 2010, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (SpyderGuy @ Feb 3 2010, 11:18 AM) *
That's why my car runs so good they string aligned it. Or was it rubber bands?

The long version:
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory"][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory[/url][/url]

The short version:
Pictures are worth thousand of words.




Oh Spidie I know, I know (Visualize a picture of a 6 year old jumping up and down) That means we are made of music. There was once a music teacher... Sorry that was not G rated.


--------------------
1990 Mazda Miata project. Partner with Patrick Ransom on a Formula Indy car. My old sometimes reliable 1999 Isuzu Hombre PU.
"Do not go quietly into that dark night but go out sliding sideways screaming WOW what a ride."
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